What's the best sleeper?

"Connqr" (connqr) 04/13/2016 at 20:40 • Filed to: Lotus Carlton

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What do you guys think is the ultimate sleeper? My personal pick is the Vauxhall Lotus Carlton. It should need no introduction, but it’s a 177 Mph super sedan with a 3.6L twin turbo I6 generating about 380 HP and a 0-60 time of around 5.2 seconds. It’s a crazy lotus tuned funmobile from 1990-92 that looks like a boring old late 80s early 90's sedan that a 4 year old would draw when you tell the most draw a car. Also, it came in only one color, a very dark green that looks black in every light except direct sunlight.

MLGCarGuy > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:45

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E63 Business Line. Apart from the large wheels, could you really tell that this isn’t a run-of-the-mill E350?

buford-t-justice > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:46

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V70R

Die-Trying > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:46

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mid engine big block the thing....... and thats livery by the way.

misfitmascots > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:46

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Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:46

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E39 M5.

not for canada - australian in disguise > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:49

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V8/Supercharged V6 Buicks. Especially the Lucerne CXS/Super.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:49

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The 4 door AWD Sierra Cosworths are cool rally-bred sleepers. They have a funky sedan 3 box shape, unlike the iconic Sierra hatch, and lack the crazy whale tale wing. They have looks that scream “I’m a mid level manager at a local accounting firm, and this is my loaner while my Bimmer is in the shop. Also, it’s the year 1992.”

djmt1 > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:50

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Your answer is the right one because it pissed off the Daily Mail and that always scores points with me.

However I guess I’m expected to pick a different answer so 850R because 5 cylinders and BTCC.

Vicente Esteve > MLGCarGuy 04/13/2016 at 20:55

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Europeans LOVE badge deleting.

Dusty Ventures > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:58

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I gots dis. Literally.

Those 6% of 05-09 Outbacks that were graced with WRX motors. Looks like the ordinary, high-riding family wagon, with only the badge and the hood scoop as tells. The automatic gets to 60 in the low 7's, the manual in the low 6's (for comparison the base Outback takes a full 10 seconds), and with minor upgrades you can get the manual into the 5's.

Honeybunchesofgoats > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 20:59

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Just based on my daily driving experience. Nothing beats driving a car that most people think is a British take on a Lincoln that could have been designed in the 80s.

Granted, it’s quickly becoming slow compared to how fast every modern car is getting.

(Full disclosure: not mine, I didn’t have pictures on hand).

Vicente Esteve > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 21:00

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Oh, whats that? Ah, just a silver hatchback.

*Gets to 60 faster than a Lamborghini Murcielago

wafflesnfalafel > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 21:11

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1st gen SHO, (though that Carlton is probably better..)

MultiplaOrgasms > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 21:15

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As I general rule I don’t consider anything with spoilers, bodykit and 285 section tires to be a sleeper, and the Lotus Carlton is probably the worst offender.

The E34 540i on the other hand makes V8 noises and even performs similarly to the M5 in the right circumstances, but is quite literally indistinguishable from an entry level car.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 21:40

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280 hp/335 lb-ft got these things through the 1/4 in under 15. And since it’s an LT1 V8, they are just a few parts away from much more power. I had a friend in high school who’s dad bought one of these brand new. Was hilarious fun until you had to hit the woefully undersized brakes at 120 mph on the freeway. No one suspects the Roadmaster!

Connqr > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 04/13/2016 at 22:32

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I forgot about these, a very good example also, although I believe the Carlton is faster though. But It’s also a bit more uncoverable with it’s subtle lotus badging and fender flares along with the spoiler.

MUSASHI66 > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 22:33

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14-16 Forester XT. No hood scoop like on older ones, slightly different front fascia from the super slow 2.5i. Stock 2.0 turbo makes 250hp, and best numbers I’ve seen for stock were 14.2 sec 1/4 mile and 6.2 sec 0-60mph.

Once it is moving, it sort of keeps up with a WRX. I wish they tuned it better to have a bit more oomph from the line.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 22:35

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Oh, the Carlton is loads faster, especially stock. However, the Cosworth’s engine is potentially tunable to Group A power levels, and then some, since it’s largely based on homologation models.

Connqr > MultiplaOrgasms 04/13/2016 at 22:41

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I will need to say no to the spoiler argument, as no one will really confuse it with a spoiler that small. And a similarly sized one is stock on this Camry and no one thinks it’s a sport sedan. The bodykit on the lotus Carlton is also very subtle, and is only really recognizable if stared at closely. The Lotus badges are really the biggest giveaway, although they are very small and again, mainly noticeable when looking closely. In conclusion, It’s a great sleeper until you really take a good look at it. It looks boring and innocent unless you have a well trained eye or are looking at it very closely.

Connqr > MLGCarGuy 04/13/2016 at 22:48

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No, but the average Joe thinks that even the most basic Merc is a nice car. It sure looks less powerful than it is, but still better than the average car. The best part about the lotus Carlton is that it was based on such a mainstream boring car. It would be like cramming a V8 into a Ford Fiesta. Omg, that’s actually a great idea. They could call it the Shelby snake party! People love the FiST, so why wouldn’t they love the FiSP? Also it would need 4wd to put power to the ground moar effectively.

Connqr > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 04/13/2016 at 22:51

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True. Now imagine one of those with a ford RS200 motor in full group B tune in that? Or a big block V8 ( provided that it would fit)?

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > Connqr 04/13/2016 at 22:59

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Not a big block, but the 302 will indeed fit. South Africa homologation special.

Connqr > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 04/13/2016 at 23:15

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Yes! This should so happen. If it was put into production it would be the best non GT ford in the lineup.

MultiplaOrgasms > Connqr 04/14/2016 at 00:07

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Yet nobody ever considers a Skyline GT-R to be a sleeper, despite not only being faster, but also being IMO a lot more subdued and discrete than that bloody Opel. At least the visual difference between a GT-R and a regular ol’ GTS is a lot smaller.

Echo51 > Connqr 04/14/2016 at 02:19

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Volvo 850 wagon T5 model. 200horsies stock, supposedly easily pumping out 400-ish on stock internals with just bolt ons, and still looks like a brick with the speed of a bat out of hell.

AuthiCooper1300 > Connqr 04/14/2016 at 04:07

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Connqr - not wishing to be rude, but do you live/have you lived in Europe? Anyone familiar with the Senator/Omega/Carlton shape would notice that the Lotus version is lower and meaner (bear in mind the colour-coded bits, too) and much more muscular (because of the wheels, tyres and spats). Just compare it with the photographs that MultiplaOrgasms provided.

I admit that at a long distance (very long distance) it may be a bit easier for a Lotus Carlton/Omega to blend in, but that’s all.

I suppose you could always confuse a Lotus Carlton/Omega with the Carlton/Omega GSi 24 V but even those looked quite distinctive when compared with a normal Carlton/Omega. I mean, they did stand out.

The Sierra Cosworth four-door (Sapphire Cosworth in the UK - and not all where four-wheel drive) is slightly less spectacular than the Lotus Carlton/Omega. That may fool a person not interested in cars, but again not exactly discreet either.

As Mr Multipla Orgasms says, a 540i of that era is much closer to a sleeper/Q-car.

I also remember some early Impreza WRX station wagon models that were very tame looking. In silver grey they just disappeared among the rest.

AuthiCooper1300 > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 04/14/2016 at 04:21

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South Africa used to build the most amazing high-performance versions of “normal” cars. From the GTV6 3.0 to the 333i, or the M745i.

Not forgetting the Capri Perana, of course, or the rest of Basil Green’s specials.

Putting a Windsor in a Sierra is not that unusual in Europe these days.

AuthiCooper1300 > Connqr 04/14/2016 at 04:29

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For a while Renault sold a Safrane Biturbo - a V6 with two turbos (268 bhp) and 4WD. The engine was developed by Hartge and the assembly of the cars was subcontracted to Irmscher. To me it looks rather anonymous, although 25/Safrane fanatics will surely think otherwise:

AuthiCooper1300 > Connqr 04/14/2016 at 04:36

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Again, it depends. Of course in the US and many export markets Mercs are extremely expensive and usually top-of-the-range. In Germany and other European markets you have, say, lower-spec W124s (even with smallish diesels) which make the rather discreet 500E (assembled by Porsche AG, incidentally) much more of a sleeper.

Together with the 300 SEL 6.3 and the 450 SEL 6.9, the 500E is probably the best “Q-car” ever from Mercedes-Benz (and one of the best sleepers ever, period.)

Connqr > AuthiCooper1300 04/14/2016 at 06:50

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I’ve never even been to Europe. I want to go though! And don’t worry, that didn’t come off as rude.

Connqr > MultiplaOrgasms 04/14/2016 at 06:54

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Yeah, I guess that’s true. Although the gtr is very famous, while the Lotus Carlton only had about 900 examples and I would think is less recognized, although I really could be wrong. (I’m pretty sure it was 300 Lotus Carlton’s and 600 Lotus Omegas).

Connqr > AuthiCooper1300 04/14/2016 at 06:57

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Oops, I forgot that Europe had a lot more entry level Mercs and such. In Europe it would be a much more effective sleeper than in North ‘Murica.

Connqr > wafflesnfalafel 04/14/2016 at 06:59

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That’s a good one anyway though. It would have been better with a V8 though.

Connqr > AuthiCooper1300 04/14/2016 at 07:08

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I’ve never seen one of these before. I think it looks really nice.

MultiplaOrgasms > Connqr 04/14/2016 at 10:12

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I basically agree with AuthiCooper1300 on that one. Anyone who had the displeasure of encountering a regular Omega will instantly tell the Lotus, although it must be said it was NOT the most ridiculous car on that platform. I don’t know about the Holden variations, but Europe also got the non-turbo, 3.0L Omega 3000 24V Evo 500: Very similar to the Lotus, but with an even bigger wing and built for DTM racing (unsurprisingly it was not very successful considering the competition in 1991-92)

Connqr > MultiplaOrgasms 04/14/2016 at 12:16

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OK, I get where you are coming from.